Why are we here doing this please?

[rockyslammer]

This a serious (for me) attempt at explanation.

After a few responses I've had here recently it has led me to believe some of us are here for different reasons.

That's not a problem or criticism.

1. It would appear are he just for some fun - to take on this machine called scientology from behind a mask - give em a bit of stick and then run away laughing. 

2. Then those that like a cause to fight and take seriously the evil scientology does. 

3. People who have been hurt by scientogoy and want to see it finished - they understand first hand that it is a criminal cult.

4.  Variations in the above.

Personally I have been in the very first wave of the anti scio movement since 1982 and I was really pleased when anons took this cause on.  I still am.

There is more than one way to skin this cat.

Certainly you can talk to non scientologists regarding the scio evils and stop them ever joining.

Then you can ridicule their bizarre "technology" and make it a laughing stock.

Then you can ridicule their leaders and TC etc.  This is almost a major industry now!  See the below from Channel4 UK, broadcast TV.

part1. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhycUTrdVbA
part2. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6teMynsHXxM
part3. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsZt4gZmkGk

Now cvanony, nick and anonyrat.  Please understand that when I first discovered in 1982 what david miscavidge was up to - I - and thousand of others, left scientology.  Isn't it important we TRY and inform others as well?

Mikey and ALL the staff in scientology work very long hours for very small money.  BUT here is their esteemed leader having a wonderful time doing things they could NEVER do.  It sucks.  Sure he may, or may not, be screwing Laurese but it is still important.  Why is she getting the VIP treatment when they can't?  Why is she so special?

I would love to know if TC visited any NZ org or scio person while he was here filming TLS.  I bet he didn't.  Miscavidge had TC buy a house in Dorman's Park 15 miles away of East Grinstead and St Hill Manor.  That's so he/they don't have to stay near the "peasants" when they have to visit.

You see both TC and DM consider scio's as peasants and they consider themselves royalty.

Now I know for certain that senior scio leaders around the world think not so highly of DM and TC and that whole bunch.

Therefore by putting what they are up to out there it will increase the resentment and maybe, just maybe, get some of the see the error in their ways.

Some of you appear not to see this as a valid way forward.  Sorry - I disagree.

Some of you don't think we should be sending Mikey messages on this forum.  I don't know why but I  would like to know the consensus on this.

Why are we here and what are we trying to achieve?

If no one here wants me to take pot shots at the leadership tell me to hop it!   I won't be offended.

Sincerely \Martin

[OnceBitten]

Hey Rocky, et al

It's always different for people who have actually been in the cult.  We obviously have had the first hand experience with the blatant lies, abuse and crap that is scn, and perhaps, well I do anyway, feel a bit resentful and slightly stupid to admit that I ever got caught up with it all.  The resentment that I feel colours my attitude about people like Mike Ferriss, DM and others and if I'm anything like you, any snippet of something 'out-tech' that these guys do proves that these guys ARE just like us out here in the wog world after all, and I, like you, want the scientologists who believe that they are in the most ethical group on the planet to wake up and notice what is actually going on!

Something made you and me and a whole host of others leave the cult, and as I have said in earlier posts, it is an individual thing that you just wake up to.  For me it was having my baby and my Mum saying, Is this what you really want for your baby?  This was in 83 when things were bad in the orgs anyway, and we were getting sec-checked all over the place and didn't actually know who was a plant and who wasn't.  We even suspected our own spouses!  Something WILL eventually twig for Mike Ferriss.  Whether or not it is us pointing out that their esteemed leader is a leech doesn't really matter, but this is a way that us ex-scis can feel like we are getting a bit of our own back on a cult that stole so many years of our lives.  We were lead to believe that all of the $$ being earned by us while we worked so damned hard for 12 -15 hours a day on staff for no pay was going back into the orgs so that eventually we would be rewarded financially at market rates for what we were doing.  It was all a matter of time and hard work.

If I was in scn and I saw what DM and his cronies were doing I would be very angry.  I would feel like it was not fair and this isn't how it should be.  It's not what's written, therefore it shouldn't be happening.  It would make me want to leave because I would see that the cult isn't all that it says it is, and that it is based on lies.

The original tech of Dianetics is based on Freudian psycholanalysis, and actually gets some good results.  That's about it.  It is no different from what was around back then from psychs, but the difference was it could be undertaken by the man-in-the-street after reading the book, instead of having to shell out hundreds of dollars to a psych for the same thing.  This is what gets people in, and gets them hooked.  It's a psychological phenomena called 'transference' and Hubbard hooked into it.  He actually stole it from Freud, and worked out that psychology and psychiatrists had the answers so were in direct opposition to his cult.  This is the reason that scn is so opposed to psychiatry.

I don't have a problem if people want to audit, think they have super-powers, think they came from another planet etc etc, but I, like Rocky, feel that good hard-working people like Mike Ferriss are being taken for a ride, and maybe, just maybe, one posting about the unethical activities of his leader and other spokes people like TC might make him think that there is actually another way that he can keep doing scientology without being affiliated to a 'church' which sucks the lives, wealth and personalities from the very people who keep it alive.

One other point I'd like to make - regarding whether Mike reads these forums, yes he does.  He has spies reading this forum, enturb, and ESMB.  He told me this when he was down in Chch.  He reads people's postings so that he can name-fag, and subsequently fair-game.  He quoted some of my posts to me, and told me that my early posts on ESMB had been referred to him and he had then had someone work out who I was.  This was none other than Plant, and we all know who Plant is! He is addicted to reading our planning, our opinions and he takes what he can to try to get an idea of who we are, what we do and where we work.  It is a full-time occupation for him.

For what it's worth

OnceBitten

[anonyrat]

Hey Martin, Once :)

Last things first, I (speaking for myself) feel pretty strongly about not censoring people on this board (free speech ftw!). So go ahead, say what you want. The mods'll move it to off-topic if it gets too, well, off-topic, but as far as I'm concerned you can say what you want on this board. Just be aware that others also reserve the right to disagree and argue with your ideas. ;P That's how consesus is obtained, and anon runs on consensus. Don't take it personally!

Re the whole DM thing; gossiping about who he's sleeping with or not sleeping with really isn't my thing. Not least because thinking of him having sex with ANYONE grosses me out.

I also dispute whether Mikey really cares about that kind of stuff. Sure, he doesn't like DM, but he's been in the scientology business for a loooong time, and I can't see him leaving any time soon. He likes the power (lol if you can call it power) too much to just pack up and leave, I reckon.

The other reason is I really don't care what he thinks. He's pretty unimportant in the scheme of things, and certainly not why I protest. It's just feeding his ego to address stuff to him on this board. I could give a flying fuck over Mikey Ferris and his perverted masterbatory fixation and creepy personality. I've got nothing but contempt for him.

But hey, you want to continue to try, it's completely up to ya. Just don't be surprised if we give you a ribbing about it now and again, Rocky ;P

Oh, and re: anon and our reasons for joining the fight - as you've gathered there's as many opinions as there are anon, if not moar. Some people are just in it for the lulz, some are in it for the white knight stuff, me, I'm in it for a bit of both. Some people's methods I really strongly disagree with (sticking shock pictures on windows facing into orgs is gonna do fuck-all for the movement, guys), but as long as they keep it legal and somewhat productive, I'm not gonna interfere.

Last thing-

Martin wrote: "I would love to know if TC visited any NZ org or scio person while he was here filming TLS.  I bet he didn't."

Actually I believe he did. He donated $5000 smackeroos to Mo (lulz) McLeary's Drug-Free Ambassadors ("drugs are bad, mkay kids, Try scientology instead!") He also started up a mission in Wanganui where he was filming, which failed miserably I believe. Anything to pimp out the cult, I guess. Bet he was under some pressure to do that - they'd only recently got him back into the fold I think.

ETA: Man that was looong! Just noticed it's my 300th post; seems fitting I make it a tl;dr one!

[rockyslammer]

hey anonyrat what happen to yer status?

I can agree with mostly all you said - thanks for saying it.

Us oldies don't get the TLDR thing - we are into reading!!~ You would not believe when I was young we didn't even have TV!!

When I first had the internet there was no www.  It was so complicated we gave up on it!

Rib me all you want - I thrive on it!  However I give as much as I take - are you ready?  Life without ribbing is a wasted life.

Mikey's unimportant yes - and no.  He is after all just a human.  He is frustrated at not being clear or OT (in the real sense) and I'm sure deep down he really doesn't relish fair gaming people like Once.  He didn't come into scio land for that.

He really is pissed off at TC for ruining his cosy little existence!  He is pissed at DM for letting TC run off at the mouth.  Deep down Mikey isn't upset with me or anon - he is angry at DM and TC.  These two are the real "why" in scio speak.

I talk to Mikey and ALL the scios who lurk here.  Whilst you allow me the privilege of posting here I will continue to do so.

So TC gave $5000 - fucking big deal!  That's the same as $5 to you and me.  Where can we get more data on TC in NZ?  Any ideas?

regards
Martin

[Nick4291]

Anonyrat's account was deleted. so she is only a guest and not a mod or admin anymore.

[Darkstar]

I'm here mostly because of #2 -- I like to fight for what I believe in and Scientology pretty much works completely against what I believe in.

Scientology does this because it compromises the three ideals that I see as the most important things for humans to work towards:

Equity - The church is hierarchical; there is no fairness or justice going up the hierarchy, only down it.
Justice - Fair game policy, prejudice, and so on.
Freedom - The forced abortions, the fair game policy, the enslavement of people in mind and body, and much more.

Basically, I'm here because I see the 'Church' as something which is inherently bad for anyone involved within it. Although there may be some good ideas within Scientology I cannot accept this in conjunction with the abhorrent practices that I have read and been told about.

If we do nothing, we accept everything - our voice is silent. If we do everything we can, we have a voice - we let them know what they are doing is not acceptable.

I guess... I want to make sure my voice is heard ;)

Regards,
Darkstar.

[rockyslammer]

You hear Mikey?  Some people DO give a damn!

By the way scio is not a Church.  When I joined it was just an association - it conveniently changed to a church because of 1st Amendment Rights (in USA) and tax reasons.

For me it is just a collection of ignorant victims.

Go for it DS

regards
Martin

[Darkstar]

By the way scio is not a Church. 

Indeed, that's why I refer to it as 'Church'.

Bunch of maggots selling a story and demanding immunity cuz the story involves the concept of belief. Zzzz.

[rockyslammer]

Sadly most of the maggots are true believers - victims in fact.

They really really believe it and are really really afraid of losing their immortality.

I always try to be a little soft on most for that reason.  Mikey though has crossed the line.

regards
Martin

[Eugene]

Dude, I discovered the path to immortality long ago, that's why I'm a Jedi.

[rockyslammer]

If you don't do it the el wrong way it isn't permanent!

[whitedeth]

Bunch of maggots selling a story and demanding immunity cuz the story involves the concept of belief. Zzzz.

Sadly most of the maggots are true believers - victims in fact.

Rocky said it right. We're not gonna be namecalling Scientologists here, kapish?

[rockyslammer]

Certainly some are "maggots" but most are not - as I said most are victims.

Our friend Mikey is however getting into "maggot" territory!!  DM is certainly a maggot.

Don't fight any wars here gentlemen - we are all on the same side - aren't we?

Paintball anyone?

regards
Martin

[Darkstar]

Paintball anyone?

dem paint pellets really hurt :(

[rockyslammer]

then you move too slow!