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Author Topic: Mike Ferriss, Vicki Dunstan, Virginia Stewart, and others  (Read 2213 times)
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« on: April 04, 2010, 02:52:10 PM »

You fought the good fight but time to give it up.

When you are in a hole you have to stop digging.  You have your own integrity to worry about now.

Forget what is coming down the lines - those guys will shit on you without hesitation.  Look out for yourselves.

We both know you are always "economical with the truth".  When you say without hesitation that no one was forced to have abortions we both know what you mean.  They were " pressured"  into it which is slightly different.  They were told that their eternity was at risk.

When you tell outright lies to the media you believe it is for the greatest good etc.  You believe it is the correct way to solve the out pr situation.  You compromise your own integrity for what you believe or what you are told to do.

Virginia, remember the 60 Minute program we both appeared in a couple of years back?  You were asked about Xenu?  You said "it is the churches position"  and then lied!  I appreciate your attempt at keeping your own integrity.  Since then you have gone downhill.

Lies now slip off your own tongue so easily.  Gosh I feel so sorry for you.

Mickey - I see you on TV sticking your finger up in the air - it's getting to you isn't it?

Vicki, I've only seen one prog you did (with Virginia) and you are in the same boat.

The thing is that the past has caught up with you and scientology.  All those years of intimidation, law suits, harassment, fair gaming etc has now returned to bite you.

It was ALWAYS the wrong policy!!  If someone has a complaint you handle the complaint - you don't fair game the person!

By the way I came into scientology in Sydney in 1965 when it was above the plumbers shop.  Before heavy ethics reared its ugly head.  Scientology was so much better then.  But then you are not allowed to argue against policy are you?  There is no way to repair something that doesn't work if it is written in policy - unless Miscavidge does it!

I'll tell you something that is not a secret - a LOT of scientology policy is just plain WRONG.  It simply doesn't work. Yes, some of it does, I admit. But some crucial policy is plainly unworkable.  But there is no method to correct it - is there?  You're stuck with unworkable policies.

Scientology has always said it wasn't a "turn the other cheek" religion.  If someone hits you you muster up all the power you can and strike back.  Trouble is you are usually way over the top!  Your response is way, way too heavy.

OK, you mostly got away with it for a number of years.  Trouble is with the internet your shenanigans were being reported worldwide.  The you sued people and they put stuff into open court you didn't want.  Then you tried to have the stuff sealed.  Oh what a fine mess you were in.  Then you secret data was plastered all over the internet.  Bugger!  You of course tried to pull the plug on it and got into a deeper hole.

Little by little your intimidation started to wear off and people were not quite so afraid.  Then came South Park "Locked in the Closet"!  You did what you could to suppress it but it only partially worked.  Of course it goes out on the internet so everyone can watch it any-time.

Then the biggest disaster - Tom Cruise! I guess DM instructed him to go on the attack.  Holy hell guys what a bloody mess for you.  Did you know 60 Minutes NZ was as a direct result of what Cruise said about post natal depression?  It was.

Then the beginning of the end - the leak of the Cruise is nuts video!  Then you all tried to get YouTube to remove it - as is your wont. Remember what happened then?  That's right - Anonymouses!!!!  The rest as they say is history.

Now virtually no one is afraid of the big bad wolf any more - you are done.

But wait - there's more!  You know all those guys you harmed over the years??  Well they are now taking their revenge.  People have memories my dears - does that surprise you?

Especially the media.  You whacked it into them for near 20 years or more.  Now they are free to come back to you.  An example just this week.

You remember taking Time Magazine to court and costing them zillions?  They won the case but lost the money.

Did you see CNN this week cleverly get back at Miscavidge?  It was a masterpiece.  He is done for.  Will DM sue CNN - not a chance.  Will he personally answer the allegations?  - Not a chance.

You have a lame duck leader running a lame duck organisation.  And you did it all to yourself - you really did "pull it in"!

So where to now you guys?  I can't help you there because I don't know.

However I do know you have to start looking out for yourselves.  You have to start mending your own souls after a lifetime of losing your integrity.

I know the future won't be easy and maybe you will decide to go down with the sinking ship - but what will you do when you hit rock bottom?  Methinks it would be easier to start before then.

I am always available to confidentially speak to on the phone or by email.  I know you have the numbers and addresses.

Now to tell you a few things for you to thinks about.

Scientology and scientologist are extremely arrogant - you think you know best.  You don't. Sorry!

You "know" you are a spiritual being.  - you don't "know" any such thing.  You "believe" it but you don't know it.

You "know" scientology is the way out and will save your eternity.  You don't "know" this at all - you merely think it.

Scientology says "what is true for you etc" - this is total rubbish.  What is true is what is actually true.  Certainly realities and truth change as science progresses but they are based on what was available at the time.

Scientology was a fifties based set of ideas.  Mostly all proved untrue now.  If there was any science in scientology it has all been revised and superseded.  If you base your life on it then you should also join the Flat Earth Society!

LRH placed a lot of emphasis on dates.  It can be proven that the dates given for OT3 are hogwash.  It can also be proven that there was no atomic explosions around the volcanic sites given in OT3.  It can also be proven that no spaceship could ever look like a DC3!!!!!  The OT3 incident is arrant nonsense.

If you want to debate this with me privately - please do so.

Also the e-meter.  Bit of nonsense as well I'm afraid. I have personally tested what it reads.  Anything you want it to!!  That's how all these criminal who have been in scientology have survived.  What they have done and were doing daily just never read.  

Instead of scanning for body thetans - just scan for purple people eaters.  Yes you WILL find them!

I lie detector has to be much more comprehensive than a simple skin galvanometer.  AND people can beat even complicated lie detectors with practise.

What I am trying to allude to is that your life is based on an illusion which you, yourself, are perpetuating. The illusion was given to you years ago but you are now keeping it in place.

I know you are afraid - so was I and all the others when we left in the 80's.  Every day of the week I bless David Miscavidge.  If it weren't for him I may still be living the illusion myself.

Time to reflect.  Do it when you don't have external influences.

I don't know if man is a spiritual being or not.  What I do know is that there is, as yet, no evidence for it.

I don't know if there is a workable science of the mind.  I do know that if I need help now I would call on science to help not scientology.

I don't know if it is possible to make OT's or not.  I do know scientology has never made one.

I don't know if it is possible to make a clear.  I do know that scientology has never made one.

How do I know?  Look at the evidence - there isn't any.  Not a bit, not one jot.

Sort yourselves out now please before you harm anyone else and yourself with fair game and lies.

Martin Ruston
not OT4, not clear #2359, not anything.  However I don't have to tell lies or harm people!

Oh - by the way - there are no suppressive people either!!  Yes some of us are power hungry and greedy, I admit, and would do anything to have power and money and women and cars and houses and travel.  But then we would be talking about David Miscavidge wouldn't we?

« Last Edit: April 04, 2010, 03:13:07 PM by rockyslammer, Reason: a ps » Logged
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« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2010, 08:59:42 AM »

Excellent post Rocky.

I truly hope some current Scientologists are brave enough to venture
here and read posts such as this.

Can I add a few thoughts ?

I can`t help noticing that when I see Scientology PR people
interviewed on TV etc. they uniformly come across as bad people.
Why this is so revealing is that these are the people who are experts on public relations.

All have studied and drilled Hubbard`s PR tech within an inch of their lives.

Meanwhile the Scientology critics come across as nice, genuine sincere people.

Just ask a few random members of the public.

None of these critics have done any PR training.

Interesting lesson.

The whole of Hubbard`s PR tech is bullshit.
Just tell the truth, is how to maintain good public relations.

And here`s the point. Scientologists need PR tech in the absence of
being able to speak the truth.

So here you have an opportunity to see something very interesting.

Your seniors know the PR tech.
They even instruct you on how to apply it.

To think they aren`t using it on you as well, is simply naive.

"Everyone" who gets involved with Scientology is a victim.

« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 09:44:09 AM by Ididntcomeback » Logged
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« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2010, 10:52:53 PM »

Well I see someone else thinks like me regarding the arrogance of scientologists.  Someone who spent a lot longer inside orgs than I ever did.

It is also interesting that he talks about lies and truths - just like me!

I will put his post up in a second but I want you to think hard about all these long-time exces who are now being declared SP.  Doesn't it make you think?  With the tech scio supposedly has it can't spot an SP exec who has been  within their midst for decades????

So what happened?

1.  They are not and never were an SP
2.  Scio makes execs into SP's!!
3.  SP's were taken on and promoted to the top levels of Scio and no one noticed - and the tech was so weak it didn't give anyone the tools to see them.

Anyone got any other answers to this apparent out-point?

Here is the post referred to earlier
When we were on the Flagship Apollo in the early 1970’s, we were told what we could and could not say about ship activities when ashore. It was called a “shore story.” We were not to mention Scientology. If asked, we were the Operation and Transport Company (OTC), an “executive training firm” that brought people in from all over the world for “advanced management training.”

In PR Series 2, LRH said, “never use lies in PR.” But he also modified this, saying, “Handling truth is a touchy business also. You don’t have to tell everything you know — that would jam the comm line too. Tell an acceptable truth. … So PR becomes the technique of communicating an acceptable truth — and which will attain the desirable result.”

When we landed in Clearwater, we had a “shore story” too. We were “United Churches of Florida,” a pan-denominational religious group. We were not to mention Scientology. That was our “acceptable truth.”

Acceptable truth? There was nothing “true” about it. It was a lie, a false façade. Just like the lie, on the ship, that we were “OTC.”

And “acceptable”? Acceptable to whom? Our lie about being “OTC” on the ship was not really acceptable to the locals. They could see that we were not some “top management training organization.” We were a bunch of ragtag, long-haired kids aboard a rusty, WWII-era cattle transport. Our identity was shrouded in mystery. Our operations were shrouded in mystery. All they knew was that we were not who we said we were. The very fact that we were lying generated suspicion and rumors.

Same in Clearwater. We came into town under false pretenses. We lied. So was it any real surprise that, once the lie was exposed, the local population treated us with suspicion and distaste?

So our lies were not in any sense “acceptable.” They were only “acceptable” to us, because they temporarily “attained the desired result” of creating a benign public image. But any benefit was very transitory. The lies were never acceptable to the local public, and they backfired badly. People aren’t stupid, and it is arrogant to think they are.

The minute you start to blur the line between truth and “acceptable truth” and “convenient lies,” you’ve started down a slippery slope.

Fast forward to the Int Base, in the early 2000s.  I lived there. The reality was that the Int Base had become a nightmare of sleep deprivation, threats, punishments, physical and emotional abuse. Everyone there knew it. But that wasn’t an “acceptable truth.” Not acceptable, that is, to the image the Church wanted to project, of being a benign, humanitarian religious organization. So our long-term expertise at “telling acceptable truths” came into play. In letters home, I talked about how great and wonderful it was at the Int Base. On those few occasions where I toured business contacts through the Base, I talked about how idyllic our life was. It was a lie. But, as I told Anderson Cooper, I was willing to lie for the group. I was willing to lie to protect Scientology’s public image.

And David Miscavige? I knew him to be a bully and a tyrant, a man of volatile moods who ruled by threat and force. But I also knew that any criticism of him, even to close friends, would result in punishment or exile. So publicly, I sang his praises, as did everyone else. Like North Korea’s Kim Jong-il, the only “acceptable truth” was to sing his praises and deify him as a man without the slightest fault or blemish, a man of almost mystical ability and wisdom. To mention the slightest character flaw or error on the part of Miscavige would be to “damage Church image.” It was an “enemy” action.

Seeing the Church of Scientology “spokespeople” trotted out to defend the Church on the recent AC360 series, I was reminded of this mindset. Everything at the Base is wonderful, life there is ideal, nothing abusive ever happens there, and David Miscavige is the perfect “Dear Leader” with absolutely no character flaws whatsoever.

I understand why they did it. As I told Cooper, I would have done the same thing in their shoes. They are committed to the Church of Scientology. They believe they have to defend it at any sacrifice – even sacrificing the truth. And they know that to reveal certain things would mean personal punishment and exile.

But like any “acceptable truth,” it backfires. Because people are not stupid. They can see a lie. They can see it in your shrill insistence that life at the Base is perfect and Miscavige is perfect.  They can see it in your eyes, in your false indignation, your tension and nervousness. It is the ultimate in arrogance to think one can lie with impunity; that the “ignorant wogs” will never notice. They do notice. They do perceive. And the lie is very, very transparent.

Truth isn’t “acceptable” or “unacceptable.”

Truth is truth.

And truth, the whole truth, is the only thing that is acceptable.
Me again!

At some point you WILL have to learn this truth.

Look at Bert Fields making Amy Scobies book into a best seller by promoting it for her!!

You are your own worst enemy - but you are so arrogant you won't even look at yourselves.

Utter, utter stupidity!

You can't even see I am trying to help you!!  If you restructured scio you might even survive - but your policy is set in stone.

Oh well don't say no one told you


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« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 09:39:01 PM »

Great minds think alike!!!

Just a little witticism - it's obvious to everyone except current scios.


There’s something called the Streisand Effect that the Church is apparently not aware of.

And please, don’t tell them about it. I’d like them to remain blissfully ignorant!

Wikipedia describes it this way: “The Streisand effect is a primarily online phenomenon in which an attempt to censor or remove a piece of information has the unintended consequence of causing the information to be publicized widely and to a greater extent than would have occurred if no censorship had been attempted.”

It’s named for a 2003 incident in which photographer Kenneth Adelman published a collection of 12,000 aerial photographs of the California coastline, to document coastal erosion. One of the photographs, as it happened, showed Barbara Streisand’s beachfront mansion. She attempted to sue Adelman to have the photograph removed. As a result, the photograph went viral on the internet, and soon everyone had seen it. Had she done nothing, no one would have noticed it on an obscure website.

You would think that the Church would know this phenomenon well.  After all, it was their bumbling attempts to remove the famous video of Tom Cruise from the internet in January 2008 that first angered internet censorship activists, leading to the formation of Project Chanology and the worldwide Anonymous protests. The Church could have avoided all of that if they had just let the video ride and slowly die out. No one would have noticed.

Well, the latest person to stumble into the Streisand Effect is lawyer-to-the-stars Bertram Fields, who should know better.  Fields got wind that Amy Scobee’s new book, due for May release, mentions his uber-Scientologist client, Tom Cruise. So Fields, of course, writes Amy a threatening letter. One has to wonder, what did Bert Fields think was going to happen?

Well, of course, the inevitable happened. Within a few hours, his letter was posted on the internet, right on Marty’s blog.

Now, keep in mind, Amy’s book is not even published. But Fields proceeds to lay out, in detail, the allegations that he thinks Amy makes against his client. And of course, by doing so, he provides prime fodder for every newspaper, magazine and online gossip blog on the planet. And so what happens next? You guessed it, the story goes viral.

Now, Amy is swamped with requests for interviews from all major media. Everyone wants to run the story.

Not only that, but she’s also swamped with calls from people corroborating her story and offering up more juicy details about Church meddling with Cruise’s life. And calls from lawyers all over the country offering advice and encouragement.

If Fields had just ignored Amy’s book, none of this would have happened. But no, he had to write a threatening letter! And the result is very, very predictable.

If you look at it, Fields did all the work. The book isn’t even out yet! Amy has made no accusations. Fields himself detailed the accusations, then denied them, all in writing.

You would think that Fields, Cruise and the Church of Scientology would learn a lesson from all this. But they won’t.

By the way, one of the accusations that Fields is so upset about is a story Amy apparently relays telling how Shelly Miscavige told her that Cruise could not join the Sea Org due to his “drug history.” And now Fields wants to take this to court? Good! Then the church will have to produce Shelly as a witness – and that will be the first time she’s been seen in five years.
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« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 12:58:14 AM »

If Miscavige was to write a book about his innovative ways
of managing Scientology. It would become an authoratative
textbook.  I see it making a lot of money.

A working title could be..." How to not run a cult."

Or " Cults run by dummies."

Or " Hubbard`s downfall...My part in it."
                                    By David Miscavige.

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« Reply #5 on: May 19, 2010, 01:44:20 PM »

See how lies can turn on you?

See how loved ones (or not as the case may be) can turn round to bite you in the arse?

I'm talking about daughters and fathers here - you all know who I mean!

So if it is possible let's talk truth here.  Just how DID you "pull that in"?

Simple - your behaviour caused it.  No one gives a Tinker's cuss about what you believe - it's what you DO that matters.  And what you all do is gross and objectionable. Mothers and fathers who bring children into the world and abandon them for no good reason should be punished and then neutered! Children who abandon their parents for no good reason are reprehensible.

You can all justify it how you like but you demonstrate you are a lower life form.  What mammals abandon their kids before they are ready?

I know you blame your so called altruistic motives - but there is another way of saying it.  "Needs must when the Devil calls"!

And every time you lie or cause someone else to lie it just compounds.  What a shameful act getting that poor girl to go on national TV and lie.  I know you modified her language - but in the end it sounded just awful.  Now that poor girl has this on her conscience.

By all means fark yourself but don't coerce others to go down the same road.  Shameful.

You all believe you are "sacrificing" a lifetime for the cause - I know it and so do many others. And you are prepared to sacrifice other people's lives as well.  Inhumane.

However have you EVER considered you may be wrong?  Maybe you are sacrificing your one and only life and that of others and there IS only one life?  How stupid would that be?

You think the people attacking you is because you are doing it right and they want to pull you down.  I know "conspiracy theory"  is big in scientology.  Ever considered you may be wrong again?

What makes a person great is his/her willingness to be just plain "wrong". Scientologists will never have this "beingness" because they are very unwilling to be "wrong".  It is a fundamental flaw.

It's hard - I had to confront it when I left scio, but it is possible.  Have you notice hundreds (maybe thousands) of scios are leaving and telling how they were wrong.  You can too.

If you can't change then others will make you change.  You don't imaging scio can survive the way it has - do you?  If you do then you are more stupid than is possible to fathom.

Society WILL curb your errant ways.  A little bit here and a little bit there.  Some by legal means and some by media methods.  Mostly by no one new joining up and existing member leaving in droves.

In the past you bullied everyone into silence.  Those days are long gone - get used to it.

You ability to harm others decreases by the day.

In the end you will be left hanging out to dry by your superiors.  Do you think they care about you?? 

It is almost too late to redeem yourselves.

take care

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